Traveller-digest     Wednesday, December 4 1996     Volume 1996 : Number 715



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Norris to the rescue!
Re: The longest wait...
Norris to the rescue! Part 2.
Re: How long has the Imperium had TL 12?
Re: It's Here
Minor impact crater in Everett, Washington...
Re: MILIEU 0 vs. TNE
Emmigration
Re: Traveller-digest V1996 #714
Historical wargames (was Traveller Computer Wargame)
Re: Emigration in Traveller
Re: Minor impact crater in Everett, Washington...
Group Hallucination
Re: Ine Givar
Re: Traveller-digest V1996 #714
Credit cards / GRG Responses
Traveller on IRC
Singed Hardbacks
Re: Singed Hardbacks
Re: Traveller-digest V1996 #709
"Basic Traveller"
Democratic reforms?
Re: Rebellion
Re: Democratic reforms?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 21:43:12 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Norris to the rescue!

Neil Simpson writes:
>Okay,so Strephon,Norris,the Vilani and Margaret have allied,the Aslan are
>pacified, Lucan has been "removed"and only Dulinor is left. What is there 
>to stop Dulinor allying with the boys (Solomani) and having a go back at 
>them,

The Solomani are divided among themselves. There is a large faction that
consider the Solomani Sphere the "natural" limit of the Solomani
Confederation and will not support agression outside it. There are also
various rivalries between member states.

>possibly assisted by a Zhodani/Sword Worlder strike into the now not so 
>well defended Spinward Marches.

Any scenario that has Norriss saving the Imperium _has_ to assume the
benevolence of the Zhodani. That is a bit iffy, but the Zhos appear to
have their own problems (they have been "consolidating" for 2000 years!)
and even a reunited Imperium will be unable to threaten them for centuries
to come. So perhaps they will leave Norris alone. And without them the
Sword Worlds are no threat at all.

>Fabricate an incident to annoy the Aslan and here we go again, more bangy 
>bits.

The Aslans and the Vargr are both much less of a threat than Megatraveller
implies. A lot of the stuff they are said to have done (like invading Tobia
and Glisten) is just plain impossible given the information we have about
their size, strength and technology. Actually, just the reserve fleets
are more than enough to deal with them.

The big problem is hooking up with Strephon and getting the Vilani to join
them. The Vargr argument cuts both ways: if they are not nearly the threat
they are portrayed as then they are not enough of a nuisance to the Vilani
to make them need Norris' help either. It would propably at the very least
cost the establishment of a "Vilani Autonomous Region".



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Dec 96 20:47 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: The longest wait...

In-Reply-To: <199612031632.QAA28376@merlin.fae.ua.es>

> >My singed hardback finally arrived this morning. Do I win the prize for 
> >the longest wait?
> 
>         Nope. Still waiting here (Spain). I am starting to have doubts about
> the existence of T4... you all are part of a BIG conspiracy, aren't you?

I'm sorry, you're not cleared for that information.

    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 21:58:50 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Norris to the rescue! Part 2.

Harold Hale writes:
>    Worse case scenario:
> 
>   The Aslan occupy most of the Marches, and what they don't occupy the Vargr
>pillage into the Dark Ages. 

Your're wrong there, Harold. The worst case scenario is that the attempt to
restore the Imperium provokes the Zhodani into taking over the Domain of
Deneb. If they don't (and it's not a foregone conclusion that they will
(Norris' problem here is that it's a strong possibility, so strong that
it is perfectly within his character not to run the risk, but in an
alternate world his sense of duty to Strephon might make him run it
(perhaps an unmistakably genuine order from Strephon could get him going)))
then the Aslans and the Vargr can be dealt with by the reserve fleets while
the regular forces goes a-battling.

Wether they would do any good at all is quite another matter. I think you'd
need at least three factions cooperating before they'd have a chance. If
Strephon had started out by going to see first Brzzk and then Margaret 
personally and convinced them that he was genuine, then gone to the Vilani
and sent for Norris' forces then he might have been able to pull it off.



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 15:33:27 -0600 (CST)
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@itlabs.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: How long has the Imperium had TL 12?

Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> wrote:

>According to _Rebellion Sourcebook_ Sylea was TL 10 in -1776, reached TL 11
>in -650 and TL 12 in -150.

...although these *are* rough figures.  TL 13 isn't projected until 300,
but I've seen some TL 13 items available at Dawn in T4 (Imperial-issue
body pistols, and I think some off-world NAS gear).  Of course, all tech
level ratings are really rough guides, and this high-tech gear will be
very very rare.  I expect that we'll be hearing some better answers as
the period supplements roll out and define the current official version 
of history.

  Steve Bonneville
  <bonnevil@itlabs.umn.edu>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 21:38:59 +0001
From: "Nick Meredith" <nickm@discover.co.uk>
Subject: Re: It's Here

T4 hardback arrived today, postmarked 24th October. Slight crumpling 
damage to top and bottom of spine due to insufficient packaging.

BUT It's here! Now I can start trying to understand the last 3 months 
digests.
- -- 
Cheers
Nick Meredith - nickm@discover.co.uk - Coventry, UK

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 13:52:00 -0800
From: Jeff Cornish <jcornish@appiantech.com>
Subject: Minor impact crater in Everett, Washington...

Mine just arrived this last week too.  Some charring on the underside,
and all of the terabit storage flimsies were wiped from the railgun's
fields -- when will IG switch to gravatic-launched delivery?

OTOH, my welcome mat seems to have been infected with the Virus -- it
tried to kill the mailman.  As luck would have it, he had the
appropriate defense with him-- a fully charged canon....

>Jeffrey

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 17:22:32 -0500
From: TPeterAZ@aol.com
Subject: Re: MILIEU 0 vs. TNE

In a message dated 96-12-02 18:54:37 EST, Christopher Weuve wrote:

> TNE passed the novel test -- if this were a novel, would I be happy 
>  that I spent time reading it?  The answer was always yes.  I eagerly
awaited 
> 
>  each new release, because it was clear that the story was moving forward, 
> and 
>  that that there would be inevitable conflict as the subplots came
together.  
> 
>  [Notice "conflict," not "violence."  Without conflict, there is no drama.]
 

<A kinder, gentler rant follows>
No pissing contest here.  I agree with everything you said in the above
quotes 100 percent.  I did enjoy reading all of the TNE stuff.  It was an
entertaining drama, I just didn't like to play it.  It wasn't "Traveller-ish"
enough for me.  I found the rules set to be too concerned with issues of
combat, and too dark overall.  That's really the cornerstone of my (albeit
significant) problems with TNE.  There seemed to be no way to build a new
future without "Hot Recovery Operations," and "Smash 'n' Grab" tactics.  I
played a campaign in a pocket empire and enjoyed it somewhat, but not near as
much as I had enjoyed my CT campaigns.  It seemed that expansion was limited,
if you chose to "obey" canon, due to the fact that you were bound to bump
into the RC or (even worse) Vampires.  The whole Vampire Fleet idea didn't
strike me as something that made travelling wise, and low tech levels made it
difficult to find a ship.  I have long believed that too many campaigns
revolved around jumping from world to world, without exploring the depth that
a single world has to offer (Star Wars Syndrome), but, the fear of
virus-infected ships lurking in every system took much of the wonder and
excitement out of emerging from J-space to find a new world to experience.
 Not to mention the effects the Final War may have had on that world.  It
seemed to me GDW was trying to incorporate something of the horror element
from Dark Conspiracy that was (IIRC) fairly successful for them.  As for the
Regency, well, it ain't the Marches, my friend.  Disenfranchised young nobles
who engange in violent or "depraved" acts while "cheating death," (Ghouls
from the Regency Sourcebook) doesn't sound like your father's Traveller.
 Maybe I'm just nostalgic.  I hear that happens at a certain age.

For what it's worth, I didn't much care for the "Rebellion" much, either.  A
little derivative, and a very arbitrary way of cleaning up some of the
stagnation in CT (which certainly existed in several campaigns with which I
was involved.)  Please do not misinterpret my earlier post as an indictment
of the story of TNE (or those who enjoyed it; hey, it's only a game); I'm
dying to know what happened behind the "Black Curtain,"  what the deal is
with the Empress Wave, how the Regency and the RC will get along when they
meet (not well, I imagine), as well as a host of other issues.  I just didn't
like it as a game.  

<Rantus Secundus Terminus>

Tim Peter
<TPeterAZ@aol.com>
"Never let your schooling get in the way of your education."--- Mark Twain

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Dec 96 17:44:35 -0500
From: lewis@chara.gsu.edu
Subject: Emmigration

Hans Rancke wrote:
>A typical Aslan _ihatei_ squadron, for example, consisting  of  two IHATEI 
>Class transports and two WEAKHTO Class cruisers (plus two scout ships not
>accounted for in the price), will cost MCr45,900 and carry 20,000 colonists 
>and 760 crew, which comes to MCr2.2 per individual  (Megatraveller design and 
>prices;  things will propably have changed somewhat with T4, but I haven't
>done the calculations).

If you were trying this Class 3 scheme, wouldn't you use old obsolete
ships, ones that had been fully paid for and just need to be upkept. 
That would lower the cost considerably.  It would be rather silly to
build a ship for a single journey.  

Lewis Roberts
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Q:What did Noah use to light up the Ark? 
A:Floodlights!        
       
lewis@chara.gsu.edu
http://www.chara.gsu.edu/~lewis/roberts.html
- ----------------------------------------------------------------- 

------------------------------

Date: 03 Dec 1996 21:45:15 GMT
From: ajpursell@babylon.montreal.qc.ca (Alan Pursell)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1996 #714

Hey there,

gone south to get some sun and recover from the snow that just keeps on
coming... back next tuesday. 

see ya...

alan j

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 17:50:22 -0500
From: TPeterAZ@aol.com
Subject: Historical wargames (was Traveller Computer Wargame)

In a message dated 96-12-03 15:38:13 EST, you write:

> GDW released three strategic-level Traveller-based wargames.  they are:
>  1) _Imperium_:  Actually predates Traveller by a year, later reissued with
<Snip>
>  2) _Dark Nebula_: Modified _Imperium_ system.  Don't remember the
combatants.
><Snip>
>  3) _Fifth Frontier War_: Very heavily modified _Imperium_ system, about
the                   > <snip>

Also, don't forget Invasion: Earth.  It featured the final battle of the
Solomani Rim War as a wargame.  It included a book of information on how to
base a campaign on Terra, particularly during the war years.  Cool!  Remember
thought that that war was fought nearly 100 years before the CT Era.  (c.
1000)  I always played it that the grandfather of one of my characters had
served in the war.  Makes for a nice family tree.

Tim Peter
<TPeterAZ@aol.com>
"Never let your schooling get in the way of your education."--- Mark Twain

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 15:07:14 -0800
From: Rich Ostorero <stormhvn@inreach.com>
Subject: Re: Emigration in Traveller

Hans Rancke-Madsen wrote:

> 
> Oh dear, I hope not. If Sylea and Ordun is under that kind of pressure then
> they are in deep, deep ordure.
> 
> The problem is that the economics of "exporting" people are such that they
> can't possible relieve population pressure unless the people are sent to a
> world fairly close to the home world.

<fascinating deletia containing feasability calculations>

In other words, there's a big difference between the historical Terran experience in 
transporting colonists (willing or not) -- that being the difference between sea 
transportation (relatively cheap in historical times) and space transportation 
(definitely uncheap in Trav).

Thanks for your learned prespective on this, Hans.

- --Rich Ostorero
stormhvn@inreach.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 14:58:01 -0800
From: Rich Ostorero <stormhvn@inreach.com>
Subject: Re: Minor impact crater in Everett, Washington...

Jeff Cornish wrote:
> 
> Mine just arrived this last week too.  Some charring on the underside,
> and all of the terabit storage flimsies were wiped from the railgun's
> fields -- when will IG switch to gravatic-launched delivery?

Hmmm. . . .I have to wonder why the Syleans/Third Imperium never developed grav driver 
weapons (ducks for cover as fellow TMLlers dig out their Grav Canons . . .)

> 
> OTOH, my welcome mat seems to have been infected with the Virus -- it
> tried to kill the mailman.

What is is about household furnishings/appliances and Virus, anyway? First my PC, then 
my toaster (still get a kick out of the _Challenge_ cartoon: "You're all toast..."), 
then my garage-door opener and teevee remote control . . . .;) Then again, whom among 
you that lives in Europe or Australia _doesn't_ wast to maim the mailman over how late 
T4 is over there?

> As luck would have it, he had the
> appropriate defense with him-- a fully charged canon....

Hmmm . . . charge up the Ian Canon and take aim at that Baaaad Pun;)

- --Rich Ostorero
stormhvn@inreach.com
> 
> >Jeffrey

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 15:28:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Wes Payne <n9548326@cc.wwu.edu>
Subject: Group Hallucination

Thus spake ajpursell@babylon.montreal.qc.ca (Alan Pursell), repeatedly:

> Hey there,
> 
> gone south to get some sun and recover from the snow that just keeps on
> coming... back next tuesday. 

Is it just me, or is this about the eighth time this has appeared on the 
list?  I mean, it's appeared at least once in each Digest that's come out 
in the last week.  Putting it another way:  I no longer know which 
Tuesday he's talking about...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 16:18:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Wes Payne <n9548326@cc.wwu.edu>
Subject: Re: Ine Givar

Thus spake Mused <marz@hotstar.net>:

> Andrew Boulton wrote:
> > 
> > In-Reply-To: <961130220408_1520272622@emout06.mail.aol.com>

[to-may-to, to-mah-to, snipped]

> > I've always pronounced it Ein Ghivhahr.  It sounds suitably terrorist to me
> > that way. >>
> > I say it EYE-nuh gi-VAR.

> For what its worth, I pronounce it Eye-n Guh-Var

No, no, no!  It's SPELLED 'Ine Givar,' but it's PRONOUNCED 'throat 
warbler mangrove!'

Oops.  Sorry.  I'll come in again...

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wes Payne, known to you as:  n9548326@cc.wwu.edu
Western Washington University -- Bellingham, WA -- The Great Northwet!  
"What is FUN?  Why is it usually colored BRIGHT PINK, and where does
 it go when JESSE HELMS comes around?" 
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 16:36:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Wes Payne <n9548326@cc.wwu.edu>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1996 #714

Thus spake Harry <paharris@postoffice.newnham.utas.edu.au>:

> Has anyone worked out the ranges of the Nuclear Dampers in FFS (and by
> default T4), I probably could, but am too lazy.

The answer is:  "it depends."  Or, rather, it depends on the damper.  
Since I don't have FF&S (or the BL "Technical Supplement") in front of 
me, I'm just guessing here, but here goes:  Shipboard dampers have an 
effective range of one space combat hex (30,000 km).  At that range they 
can tweak with the strong nuclear force enough to disable (or cause the 
premature decay of) fission and fusion warheads.
 
> Also, in the TNE adventure 'The Guilded Lily', one of the ways of
> stopping a starship from harming a starport was to aim nuclear dampers
> at it's powerplant and shut it down. This makes a lot of sense, since
> dampers affect the forces involved in nuclear reactions.

That was one heck of a lot closer than 30,000 km.
 
> It occurs to me that this could be quite a powerful weapon. If you want
> to keep a ship intact, and board it, shut down it's powerplant with your
> nuclear dampers (and hope it doesn't have missiles).
> Piracy is now a much more viable option. Since civilian ships don't seem
> to have missiles in T4.  The Imperium now also has a MASSIVE advantage.
>  
> "OK number one, just how powerful are our batteries again?"
> 
> What kind of defence would there be against that?

Staying away.  It occurs to me that the amount of strong nuclear force 
'tickling' that a space combat nuclear damper can put out at its extreme 
operating range, while just enough to monkey-wrench a nuclear warhead, is 
hardly sufficient for snuffing the fire of a fusion power plant.  
However, "the Gilded Lilly" offers the possibility that, if the distance 
between ships is a whole lot less, one could at least wreak enough havoc 
to cause an opponent's fusion plant to perform a safety shutdown.

"Keptin, we were gettin' some verry strange fluctuations from th' fusion 
 plant before she shut down...  I kinna start 'er back up in time!"

In my campaign, this minimum distance is very, very close-- a lot closer 
than ships typically get in combat.  In the absence of any 'canonical' 
(there's that cuss-word again) statement of the conditions required to 
'damper snuff' a fusion plant, it's up to the referees to decide, I guess.

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wes Payne, known to you as:  n9548326@cc.wwu.edu
Western Washington University -- Bellingham, WA -- The Great Northwet!  
"What is FUN?  Why is it usually colored BRIGHT PINK, and where does
 it go when JESSE HELMS comes around?" 
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 19:44:33 -0500
From: GoldRushG@aol.com
Subject: Credit cards / GRG Responses

<< However, I must point out that charging credit cards (or bank accounts)
without supplying the goods is illegal >>

  VISA's own rules state that a merchant cannot charge the buyer's account
until after the product is *shipped*. Most merchants conduct the transaction
the same day, processing the shipping order after the charge is made.
Otherwise, a merchant could very well ship a product only to find out later
that the charge is denied.

  BTW, I have not been very active on this list and I just wanted to post a
message stating my reason. In short, this list is *very* active. I check the
subjects of the various messages on each list file, but I do not read them
all nor do I (obviously) respond to them all. In case anyone wished to ask me
a question, your best bet is to e-mail me directly to ensure a speedy
response.

  Mark @ GRG

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 18:46:40 +0000
From: "Suzette C. Dollar" <suzd@goodnet.com>
Subject: Traveller on IRC

Thursday night is Traveller night on IRC!

Due to the holiday, we did not have a good turnout last week.  We 
never even ventured onto the topic of the week.  Therefore, we are 
repeating last week's topic.

This week's (er, last week's)  topic is "Game Handouts". Come talk 
about things you have given out as a GM, or received as a player, 
that helped make your game special;  Imperial ID's, "aged" documents, 
etc. 

I'll be on IRC by 6:00PM Mountain Standard Time.  The following time
zone equivalents apply:

             US Eastern :  9:00 PM 
             US Pacific :  6:00 PM 
             London     :  2:00 AM 
             Paris      :  3:00 AM

We have been trying to use the same server to help keep us from
getting lag.  We have had recentt luck with:

             Manhattan.KS.us.undernet.org
             ports numbered:6660-6669 

If at first you don't get through, try again.  If you can't get on
this server, try another one that you have with your program, but make
sure that it has the '.undernet.org' suffix or you may not be able to
find us. Finally, as a last resort, if you have any troubles, eMail
me. I will keep my email running and checking mail every 3 minutes.  I
will be happy to try to help you land at the correct jump coordinates.
My email address is:  suzd@goodnet.com


Here are a few places for you to look if you are new to IRC to help
you get connected and join the live Traveller talk...

      http://www.undernet.org/ 
This is the Undernet homepage.  There are a number of helpful links
here that you might be interested in, including, the official server
list for the Undernet. (More on servers later.) 

      http://www2.axi.net/ 
This is the mIRC homepage.  mIRC is one of the most common IRC
clients. Just like you need a web browser to view web pages, you use
an IRC client to chat on IRC.  This location includes downloads for
the mIRC faq, an IRC faq, and the mIRC program itself.  It also
includes a section titled "Instructions for Net Newbies & Download
Dummies" that will help you on your way to IRC. 

     http://www.bcpl.lib.md.us/~frappa/pirch.html
This is another popular IRC client.  There are many links here to help
you find your way to IRC as well. 

Now, once you have connected to your ISP and loaded your IRC client,
you pick a server and a port and then connect to IRC.  After that, you
join #traveller and commence talking to us. :) 

Sorry for the length. 

Your IRC Gang... 

SuzD, stiger, JoeW, shadowcat  (AKA, Suz, Paul, Joe, Kevin)
Suz Dollar
suzd@goodnet.com

*Nothing is really work, 
 unless you would rather
 be doing something else*
           --James M. Barrie

------------------------------

Date: 04 Dec 96 13:48:40 +1100
From: Michael.Barry@FINANCE.ausgovfinance.telememo.au
Subject: Singed Hardbacks

     Joe
     
     I think something is very wrong with Imperium Games. I can understand 
     a little bit of damage from postage, but this is about the fourth time 
     I have heard of somebody actually getting a *singed* hardback. 
     
     Slight crumples are excusable, but actual burns are not. 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 21:04:47 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph E. Walsh" <ransom@connect.iconnect.net>
Subject: Re: Singed Hardbacks

On 4 Dec 1996 Michael.Barry@FINANCE.ausgovfinance.telememo.au wrote:

>      I think something is very wrong with Imperium Games. I can understand 
>      a little bit of damage from postage, but this is about the fourth time 
>      I have heard of somebody actually getting a *singed* hardback. 
>      
>      Slight crumples are excusable, but actual burns are not. 

Well, the idea was to give it that "aged" look.  They wanted them to look 
like artifacts dug up from an Ancient site.  I guess the effect didn't 
come of as well as they'd intended. 

Coming Soon: The "Fifth Frontier WarZone" edition of Starships! 
             Features actual laser-burned holes!
             Black globe not included.


- -Joe
______________________________________________________________________________
Joseph E. Walsh      |  Atari 8-Bit User and Programmer Since 1982
ransom@iconnect.net  |  Classic Traveller Referee Since 1983
Stuck in the '80s    |  Microsoft-Free and Loving It! :)
       .....Official Reporter of Imperium Games Product Info.....

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 22:20:49 -0500
From: Marska3@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1996 #709

unscribe traveller
unscribe traveller - digest

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 21:26:22 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph E. Walsh" <ransom@connect.iconnect.net>
Subject: "Basic Traveller"

Hi folks,

I've got a really dumb question, but it's been bugging me for about a 
dozen years now (I was just reminded of it last night as I was re-reading 
Belters), so I thought I'd throw it out to you:

In a lot of the later CT products, the Traveller basic rules versions 
are listed (i.e., "This requires one of the Traveller rules sets.  These 
include...").  They list Deluxe Traveller (I know what that is - it says 
it right on the box), The Traveller Book (no problem there), and Starter 
Traveller (again, it says "Starter Edition" right on the box).  

The question comes when they list a fourth version: "Basic Traveller" - 
to what are they referring?  Which version of the Traveller rules was 
"Basic Traveler?"  

Was it the three little black books (the products that list these 
four are all from the era when TTB and the two-book (Rules, Forms & 
Charts) verson were dominant)?  I don't believe I've seen a boxed set of 
the three black books that is designated "basic traveller."  Was there a 
third boxed set that I don't know about?  Or was this just something used 
internally at GDW, but not on an actual product box?


Thanks in advance for any info,

- -Joe
______________________________________________________________________________
Joseph E. Walsh      |  Atari 8-Bit User and Programmer Since 1982
ransom@iconnect.net  |  Classic Traveller Referee Since 1983
Stuck in the '80s    |  Microsoft-Free and Loving It! :)
       .....Official Reporter of Imperium Games Product Info.....

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 15:27:00 -0800
From: Harry <paharris@postoffice.newnham.utas.edu.au>
Subject: Democratic reforms?

K.C. Komosky Wrote:
> And presumably after his reforms successfully take hold, in future 
> generations the Reformed Imperium will be politically and economically 
> strong enough for Dulinor's heirs to re-integrate the wayward pieces.

> p.s. is there anyone who believes that democratic reforms in the Third 
> Imperium are NOT a good idea?

I must have misinterpreted what Dulinor was doing, I thought he was
after  having a greater control over local governments. I didn't think
it had anything to do with democratic reform.

(A very bad idea, how do you run a democracy in something the size of
the Imperium? Long live the Nobility!!!)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 00:22:50 -0500
From: HDHale@aol.com
Subject: Re: Rebellion

Mused writes:

>Only one prob with this, the Zhos have no intention of conquering the 
>marches, they just want a stable neighbour who is not going to take all 
>the best unclaimed worlds.

   Given the choice of watching the Spinward Marches collapse into total
chaos or helping Norris, the regional Zhodani leadership would have probably
opted to send warships to assist Norris.  This would have brought them into
direct conflict with the Aslan and the Vargr, and would likely result in a
long term military occupation of much of the Spinward Marches by the Zhodani
Consulate--that occupation would likely become permanent after it becomes
apparent that the Imperium is dead.

   I realize it may be difficult to imagine Sword World, Darrian, Imperial
and Zhodani warships fighting side-by-side, but with one human empire gone
and another experiencing severe trouble, suddenly those political differences
that were so devisive before suddenly seem less important with the existence
of human civilization in the balance.

>In addition, the Zhos seemed to be in some sort of mess by 1120, 
>with warships fleeing something in Zho space (see Survival Margin)

   Thus the regional Zhodani leadership has an ulterior motive for
intervening on Norris' behalf.  By absorbing the non-psionic dependent former
Imperial colonies, they hope to add to their own stability.  Administrators
from the Marches can take over in areas affected by the Empress Wave, in much
the same way that Christians and Jews were recruited to run large portions of
the Ottoman Empire.

Regards,

Harold
 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:31:53 -0600
From: bolie@io.com (Bolie Williams IV)
Subject: Re: Democratic reforms?

At 5:27 PM 12/4/96, Harry wrote:
>K.C. Komosky Wrote:
>> p.s. is there anyone who believes that democratic reforms in the Third
>> Imperium are NOT a good idea?
>
>I must have misinterpreted what Dulinor was doing, I thought he was
>after  having a greater control over local governments. I didn't think
>it had anything to do with democratic reform.
>
>(A very bad idea, how do you run a democracy in something the size of
>the Imperium? Long live the Nobility!!!)

You'd have to have some kind of representative democracy where
representatives were elected (planet-wide, perhaps?) and sent to
some legislative body.  Kind of like the U.S., where senators
can, in theory, be appointed or whatever.  It'd be hard to have
a popularly elected president, though...

A system like that could work just fine, though the central
government would probably end up being weaker...

Bolie IV

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bolie Williams IV
bolie@io.com
http://www.io.com/~bolie/

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1996 #715
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